The Leadercast Podcast
The Leadercast Podcast

Episode · 1 year ago

61. Misconceptions about Hungry Leadership


Leaders are hungry.


Hungry to improve themselves, hungry to achieve recognition, hungry to have an impact on others.


In this episode, we interview Carlos Gonzalez de Villaumbrosia, CEO at Product School, about how leaders can keep themselves hungry.


What we talked about:


- What entrepreneurs do & don’t need to get started


- The origin story for Product School


- Intentionally creating a remote community 


- Leaders should step up for causes they care about


Check out this resource we mentioned during the podcast:


- Read Carlos’s best selling Product Book for free


Check out the full podcast with Carlos Gonzalez de Villaumbrosia by clicking here.


If you don’t use Apple Podcasts as your audio player, you can also find every episode at this link.

This is the leader cast podcast, helping you become a leader worth following. Hello, leader cast community, welcome to another episode of the leader cast podcast. I'm Angie, Aaron's and this month that leader cast, we are focused on the theme of Mentorship, how to give back to someone in your community as a leader, following through and your responsibility to use your leadership platform and why it is important to do so. Speaking about our month's theme and more, our guests today is Carlos Gonzalees Day Bell Ambrosia. Carlos is the founder and CEO Product School, the global leader and product management training with a community of over one million product professionals. In this episode, we speak about his background and education and why he is a lifelong learner, what he thinks about remote working and why he believes in community engagement as a leader. During our conversation, Carlos speaks about how the product school is an online learning community, one that nourishes education from the digital space. At leader casts, we too have a platform that can help you become a leader worth following. Learn more about the leader cast now platform and we'll get started in just a moment. Leader cast now is an online resource for your leadership development. Get the solutions to your leadership challenges on any device at the moment. You need it. To learn more, go to now out leader castcom. Hi, Carlos, thank you so much for joining us today and the podcast. How are you doing today? The good. Thank you for having me, of course, it's our pleasure. I kind of want to start off with the fact you've been focused on a few different startups, one being flock in now products school. As an entrepreneur, what is the core value that pushed you to start these companies? Yes, so hunger. I am from staying. I'm an immigrant living in California, being here for the last Daen years, and I didn't have an easy path here, even though my parents gave me access to good, traditional education. They always study me the value of not taking things for granted from a very good young age. So I had to start working when I was seventeen in high school and I use that money to to pay for my trips, to pay for the things that I just wanted to do beyond the standard. So I also taught me the value of being responsible and keeping up with my studies, my sports and other responsibilities. And an older brother. I have two younger brother, so that also added additional pressure to set an example for the next generation. So Anyway, I always love technology and Silicon Valley. My dream was always to come to California, but my parents told me that they wouldn't be able to send me study abroad. We just didn't have the resources to do so. So I had to save up all my money. Never bought a house, never bought a car, just wanted to put all my money into education and be able to come to the US. So pretty much had to figure out everything by myself, not just...

...the money part, but also the visa, the application to get into school. I went to UC Berkeley. I did study of masters in business here. I also had to learn English, so it wasn't really an easy path, but it definitely taught me the value of being hungry and not taking things for granted. You mentioned that I've started companies in education, and that's true. I've started three different companies and inducation, because I'm very passionate about education. I've always been looking for solutions to my to myself first, and the problem is that in traditional education many of the topics that I was learning fled outdated, not applicable to the real world, and also some of the teachers that I had. They were really inspiring. I didn't want to be like them in the future. So I was always looking for how can I learn what I want from the best at it? That was kind of the common theme before be beyond like before, in all of my company. So in proad schools case, which is my current company, I started six years ago, sumhere of two fourteen INS in San Francisco. This is again as solution to my own problem. I've been a product manager for many years, but before that I started computer science in Europe and also a business in in the US. The reality is that none of those schools were really optimized for teaching people how to build these are products. Engineer school felt very low level, very tactical, and I wanted to leverage my technical backgroun in a different way. That's why I decided to then go to business school. But also business school fell to high level, very, you know, up in the air, abstracting many ways, and and I also met many people in busines school that would come from a traditional business background, such as consulting or marketing, that also wanted to to roll up their sleeves and get their hands dirty, but they were feeling very intimidated by not having a traditional engineering degree. So here we are so many different people in busines school trying to tackle the same problem, which is building the guitar products, but none of us were really getting any single topic, a subject on product management. In a two year full time product I didn't have a single product management class or detail marketing, or do you ex design or any of the detail skills that a lot of people who work in Technic to apply on a daily basis. So that was kind of the the final inspiration for me to start a proud school which is a hybrid in between engineering and business that gets the best out of both words and can teach people in a much more efficient way, because another problem that I had with education is that it was a huge commitment. You have to spend two or more years of your life full time doing something. Well, I think these days we need more flexibility and and I never understood why we are supposed to study full time until I were mid twenties and then work full time for the rest of our lives. Well, what if you can get it all? What if you can keep up with your life and work and at the same time continue investing in yourself so you can grow your career, and that's why all the trainings that we lever from private school are weeknights or weekends. That allows us to to help students that can learn on the site. They're all professionals that keep up with their foot and jobs and at the same time attract the very best instructors, which actually had not teachers. All...

...the people who teach a proud school are product leaders who keep their food and jobs at incredible companies such as Google, facebook, Gouger or R B andb. I've noticed almost every entrepreneur I talked about as a hunger to them, and I think anyone who's a lifelong educator also has a hunger to them. You clearly are passionate about education, so why is ongoing education so important? And Leadership Development? Why is it important to invest in the teams that you're currently leading? Yeah, for me it's always been top of mine, so I don't think it's more important now than ever, because it's always been super important. I guess don't understand how we can grow in life if we don't invest in ourselves. So that's a big believer in life young learning. I always try to learn on the side, the same way I like to work out or I like to hang out with my family. I think it's important to reserve some time to invest in yourself and learn, and it doesn't need to be work. You can also be other topics that you are there curious about, and I think that type of hunger, that type of passion, it what keeps US alive. And more companies now are feeling the pressure to to do that just because there's no plan B. Their business were in packed that and they have to figure out solution to stay alive. So it's a warning call for for a lot of companies, but I think in general, this is this is what we all need at both work and life, and it's not negotiable. That makes sense, I think, as we are nurturing our teams, whether they stay with us or move on, education is so important for them. Let's talk a little bit about entrepreneurs again, where we have a lot of people who are beginning to become entree entrepreneurs because of the pandemic. Maybe they've been laid off for a load, for a little bit and want to continue with a new project. So for the newer. Soon too, be entrepreneurs listening who are just starting out. What advice you have for them when it comes again in buying for what they're doing? Yes, so, first of all, you can be an entrepreneur without starting a business, and I think that is a common misconception, right, that you have to start a business, you have to quit your job. That's not true. You can apply. First of all, you can apply in enterpreneur skills at work. You can be very entrepreneurial in your company. If you also want to do something by yourself, that's totally fine. You can start that as society to kind of make sure that you have the financial stability to try something. You can always go all the way, but I guess want to provide people with options so they don't think that the only entrepreneurs are the people who quit their job and start a whole new venture and, you know, jumping off a cliff. Then I think it's very easy to trigger ourselves something a well, I don't have time, I don't have money, I don't have knowledge. The reality is that you don't need a lot of money to start something. You don't need to have a computer science degree or you don't need an MBA. You just need that hunger to push yourself to try something...

...and always rely fine time for it. Like what you definitely need is time. But the reality is that Pec people always find to, I wish, by time for the things that matter to them. So I would say do not get disqualified just because you think that you need to quit your job. Do not get disqualified just because you think that you need more knowledge about certain degree. Just start something, just make time for it and try and I'm sure you're going to learn a lot down down the road. And then and a third thing that I think it's very important for entrepreneurs is that it's better to show something than tell something. Ideas are very cheap and the real value is not in the ideas, in the actual execution. And yes, I'm sure you will always want to make your product or solution better, but the reality is today there are so many twols out there that would allow you to build something quick and dirty. Can be a prototype, it can be something just that you can use to start setting something so do not get stuck into the mindset of Oh my God, my product has to be perfect. Your product has to exist so you can show it to customers, that you can show it to team members and that will help you convince them to to work with your or or buy from you. More than yes, sharing an idea and a big vision, but you know something that it's not real yet. I love that, as you return back to that hunger piece of ideas are cheap, like you don't need all the money they get started. You just need kind of an idea and the hunger to really move forwards. Great Advice. I know that you wrote a book, the product book, and there's a section about understanding the company. Really dive into a company base. You need to understand what they're doing. You start with evaluating the strengths, the weaknesses, motives and much more. Really diving into that piece. Thinking about the current state of the world, the economy due to Covid nineteen, can you tell us a little bit why that why of a company is so important in business? Absolutely, and thank you for mentioning my book. Yes, it was released in the summit of two thousand and seventeen. It's called the product book and it became an abys set on Amazon. I decided to make it available for free to everyone. We go. We sold over two hundredzero copies and it's been translated into four languages, Spanishinglish, Portuguese and Arabic. There's also an audiobook person and you can get it for free on our website, proud schoolcom slash book. I think we're all going through a lot and the macro environment is it's important and we all need to know what's going on right so called it us, elections and many other things that my impact how we live. But at the same time I don't want to use that as an excuse not to do something at a micro level, because the reality is is always going to be a logical reason why we shouldn't do something, why we shouldn't that start that company, where we shouldn't try that new idea. But as entrepreneurs we need to be resilient and develop that muscle to keep pushing against the odds, because the auds are never going to be in our own favor. So for me, being a founder is not cool. Being an...

...entrepreneur might sound great from the outside, but the reality is that it is not. You have to work really hard, you have to get nose and failure so often and you shouldn't go for it just for the fame and glory. It takes a lot of work and mental strength to really do this day in the out. You should go for it if you're truly passionate about a problem. So to your question about the why, I think when we talk about why, it's not about the solution, it's about the product. Why are you really so passionate about solving this specific product? The realities are the solutions will change, they will they will evolve with time, and that's fine. But if you don't have that level of passion for fixing a specific problem, you're probably going to give up because things happen and nobody's ever going to believe more than you in that is specific why? So if you don't really believe in it, in you're just doing it for the fame and money, it's going to be very hard to involve other people to follow you, because the reality is that there's no overnight success and all the good news and interpret successful entrepreneurs that you see out there, they've been working for so many, many years before you even seeing the press. So I just want to make people aware of the fact that it's a Motherton, not a sprint, and that really being passionate about the problem is more important than being passionate about the solution, and we've been talking about that a lot, and I think with the pandemic. So it goes without saying again that the idea of knowing your why, as people have slowed down with the pandemic, has been really in riching and has really up to level of passion for people. So getting back to that why, getting back to those basics, it's so important right now. Thank you for that. Speaking of Covid Nineteen, have you and the product school pivoted in this time? Is there any advice that you have for those who are in a similar situation like you are? So fortunately, within remote company since the very beginning when we started, so we did have to make any any big adjustment there. We also deliver all of our trainings online and that will happen way before covied. So fortunately we've been business as usual. Obviously, they are always suggestments that need to be made, but nothing really massive in that regard and the realities were growing faster than ever. We're experiencing tailwinds. Goes all an education is more necessary than ever. More people are recognizing the importance of lefelong learning first and also really the having access to the best resources, no matter where they are located. I think only location can help with that. And then the second thing that really helped us is that we teach product management. Product management is it's basically most necessary than ever because the word is moving online and we are all using more and more detailed products every single day. So the more products we use as consumers or also as part of our work, the bigger the need there is for product managers, for people who sitting between technology and business that can help us build experiences for for customers. So yeah, we in a in a good sport right... and obviously I'm very empathetic to all their businesses and some of our clients we train. They are in different industries and what we do is to really help them understand how they can make migrate their product to online or at least create a different, obviously on or product that they can deliver to their customers in during during this time, because the realities are a lot of the solutions that we're coming up with today are not just temporary solutions and then when covied disappears, will go go back to our normal life. The realities that there is a new scenario. So this may be pushing companies to accerate the rate of innovation faster, but a lot of the innovation that we are doing right now is here to stay. You mentioned the product school, has been a remote team for a while. As a leader, what is your biggest challenge, as well as what you think your biggest successes as a remote company? Yeah, so being remote it's a very strategic decision. It's not about, okay, here's black or Microsoft teams account will chat online and good luck, we figure it out right it. Being remote. Is Really building for us is in remote first, meaning it's no office, and this is forcing all of us to think of remote notice a location, but as actually place for everybody. It's not that all people in headquarters get to make the decisions and then people who are working from home, you know, only get the breadgrams. Everyone's in. Working remote is the very beginning and that allows us to get access to the best talent, no matter where they are. It comes with all the challenges because obviously you have to work across different time zones, but for me it's been something I've been doing since forever. Coming from Europe and having people in different parts of the world is. I'm not new to that. However, I had to say now this is becoming more of a commodity. Before, for us, saying that we were a remote team and will allow people to work from home was, I really a real competitive advantage. Now more and more people are being forced to do that. So I believe that the real competitive advantage is for companies to create a remote first culture, meaning being remote is not just as I ship you a laptop and you are on a chat. Is Really we take care of you and we really understand your new scenario and and we really create the right environment for people to thrive. As there's something that you intentionally do to create that community that you're speaking you know a lot of things. So we're first of all, being able to deliver our services online forces us to kind of drink our own champagne, right, so we we eat what we preach in that regard. Examples of that are we love organizing and moderate the time for people to kind of recreate some of the water cooler time. People. They have rooms on the own slack, for example, where they can talk about different things. We also create a different different claps based on different topics to allow people time to... about things that are not just about work and really establish those connections between team members that are in different functions of the company and they maybe don't get to interact as often. Those is more than the fund stuff like we also do virtual team off sites. We like to do we use a lot of boats and small things to kind of keep the moral up and make people feel as connected as possible. But we also like to organize team trips because I don't think there is a perfect replacement for an offline experience. In so in some ways people, we are humans. We still create that physical connection. So when possible we organize, say, team retreats. We fly out everyone from all over the world to to get connected in person and and share more experiences. I think that's something that I I I've been I haven't been able to do in the last six months, unfortunately, because of coped, but we can't wait to to do it. And we have a courture committee which is always monitory in morality team and really trying to understand feelings, because when you connect with someone over over email or over zoom or whatever it is, you know you have a time box of clteen, thirty sixty minutes, yes, to talk about work and it's hard to find time to talk about feelings, to really understand what's going on beyond work. So this is not something that I did is the very beginning, of course, but I had to learn, and I think that because we've been working remotely for such a long time, we have a hit start in that regard. Absolutely, even here are later casts, we have Virtual Water Cooler and slack. So it's good to know that, someone who has been so engaged with our environment, we have learned from you, despite even knowing we have. So thank you for that. Even though you're trying to bring everyone together culturally in your environment, we are living in our world that's been facing a lot of division. When we have a community or a team that divides. How do you approach that? As a leader, I believe that we are what we do, not what we say, and as leaders we should use our platform for the stand up for the causes that we care about. We should take action and live by example, because a lot of people are looking up to two leaders and the impact of our actions are much bigger than sometimes what we can imagine. So we had to take that with a lot of response ability. Now that being said, I'm going to give you some examples of things that we've done and and some of the cost is that I personally care about. One is universal access to education. This is a promise that I did to myself when I started my very first company, inducation. I never understood why people wouldn't be able to learn from the best and learn what they wanted. So in that regard, we decided to plege half a million dollars in scholarships for underrepresented communities in tech so they can access all of our certification products for free. Over ninety percent of all of our resources approad school, including discussion forums, books, other courses, events conferences, are absolutely free and will always be..., and that's something that is very important for me to be able to give back to the community. And then other specific examples. So with the black lives matter movement, for example, we'd also decided to honor Black Produc leaders in our work committee to showcase people of color who are really building products for the world and and some of the products that we use on a daily basis are actually built by them. and talking about the piece of product that facebook, Netflix, Uber Arev and B people that really really have our best interest in mind. We try to do the same with other groups of for example, for International Women's Day, we like to honor some of the best women product leaders. We did the same now in October to during a Hispanic heritage month, to honor the next productly a. So in general, I like to use my platform stand up for the costs that I care about, education being one of them, and also, obviously, diversity and inclusion being on top of my mind. And you talk about using that platform. So I want to shift a little bit because I know you're a member of leaders and tacpace in San Francisco area, where you have you're also a Forbes Product Council member as a leader. Why is giving back to the community so important for you? I think that makes the word a better place. I think it's my responsibility to give back to the community. The same way, I am extremely grateful for the mentors that I had in my life and if we can all give more than what we take, we're going to make the word a better place. When I grew up, I always seek advice and mentorship and I struggle to actually find mentors. So it's not easy to to find people you want to learn from, but once you find this person, you have to grab them really hard and content and try to be sponged to learn as much as possible and then hopefully give back to the community so the next generation can benefit from it as well. And I want to for me, it scored to to be able to give access to high quality education to people. This is no negotiable for me and that's why I mentioned that over ninety percent of all the things that we do approad school, of the resources that we create, are absolutely free. And you mentioned that I belong to two groups and leaders in taking San Francisco and and Forbes product, Product Council member that I'm very grateful to be and I'm greatful to be here with you today, because I think people need good news, they need inspiracy and they need to know that it is possible. Also need to know that it's not easy and they have to work hard and be hungry, but it is possible, and I think that more, no, more than ever, we need that type of positive reinforcement, and you say more than ever, and I think building a community and giving back right now turn is isolated time is needed more than ever, but it's also really difficult for a lot of people as are mentally working through some anxiety or depression of being alone because of the remote access.

Do you have any advice for leaders, or really any of our listeners who are looking to take the step of giving back to the community at this point in their careers? Absolutely, and I think one of the things that they can do right now is if you want to give back to the community, you don't have to build a community. There's so many communities out there that already did that heavy lifting. So you can doin them if you get about their courses and, yes, volunteer some of your time. So we're all busy, right, but I always said that BC people always find time to the things that really matter to them. So about product management specifically, we have a community of over one million members around the world and all of the instructors and speakers who participate at road school, they do it on the side. They keep their foot and jobs. They work at incredible companies and they give back this way. Some of them only have one hour per month, so they participate as speakers. Some of them have more time in case. In that case they participate at instructors and the reason why they do it at broad school is because they didn't have a put school when they were getting started. They really resonate with the mission of helping people get a product management job or get that next promotion, and that's the exact same mission that I'm trying to accomplish. That's why I started this company. So I would say for people who really want to volunteer, first of all thank you and yes, do it, but maybe there is a quick win. Maybe you can find organizations that that already had this type of platforms, so you can join them and take some baby steps. You don't need to overcommit. You can do something very small, but if you see value as well, then why not continuing and I'm sure you will also learn a lot. I believe that the ultimate step in in the learning process is to actually teach. Let's talk a little bit about networking within those communities. Building a network is really important when you're trying to build a career, whether in entrepreneur or a leader at a copper company or an association. What networking advice do you have for leaders when they're trying to make a career change and networking unchartered waters? So if they're new to an organization or new do a community, what advice do you have for them to really take that big stuff? I in that's a great question, because networking is a dangerous work. I think it's been overused and some people can miss interpret it. It's not that all I need something now. Let's let's let's get out and network. Right, like for me, it's about building long term relationships and that that takes time. So that means that you have to invest time in it to really build trust foundation with other people. Right. It's not just Oh, I'm going to go to this networking event, I'm going to show up, a five minute cheap chat and then I'm going to say what I want and I'm going to ask for a business card. That, for me, is not networking. That is, for at least, definitely not building a long term relationship. So it's about quality over quantity and it's not about how many connections you have on Linkedin or how many followers you have on social media's really how many people you truly get to know at a personal level and and they know you as well. For..., the Roop of them is try to give more than you take, because if you approach a relationship this way and you're truly committed to making the other person succeed, however it is, then eventually this will pay off. But you can't just approach a relationship as a transaction and try to get a new job, a new round like that. That is possible to but to me that is not networking. And you mentioned a mentor earlier and how that was a hard path for you. It's hard to get the mentor. Our theme this month, that leader cast, is actually all about my and towering. Do you currently have a mentor and how does that relationship work for you? If you do? I do have multiple mentors actually, and I believe it's very important. If you think about it, every single elite athlete has a mental Lebron James has a coach as well. So having a mentor is recognizing that you want to get better, you want to invest in yourself. So that thing. That's that's a good thing. Now it's also important to find the right mentor. It's important to pick the people you want to learn from, because you know, it's very easy to find advice. Now you want to make sure that you are getting the right advice for yourself and again, that dies up to the point before about building a long term relationship and finding someone that you truly trust. But I think in addition to me or someone having a mentor, it's also important to have peers and part of a CEOPA group you mentioned before, called leaders in take, and that's great because I feel safe. It's small group of people that are going through stuff. They build their own companies and I don't know if we mentor each other, but we definitely listen to each other and we talk about feelings and we are able to be vulnerable and and all of that. It's also helping us realize so things and learning from other people. So you mentioned how you are figuring out how to work remotely by learning from other companies, and I think that's a beautiful thing, even if they are not your direct mentors. I think that having this type of key relationship with other people that you respect it's important. And then the third point is potentially be a mentor for others. I do that to a lot of our pro school graduates that came to us to grow their career. I was I participate a lot, as I guess the speaker, but also asp as a personal mentor doing. I bloke two hours per week to do one on one sessions with some of our graduates and honestly, I love it and I think I'm learning maybe more than they are, because there's something about giving back that makes you feel good and at the same time it makes me want to prepare for the other person. I just can't show up and give us pill like I really need to spend time to get to know the other person and then when they win, I went too. And I believe in Karma and I believe that we are all here for the long term. So you really want to build a community, you want the members of your community to succeed, how about you believe in Karma and the...

...quality of our quantity is always good advice, especially as our teams are trying to put out some quality education, quality content, quality products, whatever they're producing. So thank you for that advice. As we wrap up, we like to end every episode of the leader cast podcast with a question that ties to our mission, a building leaders worth following. What makes a leader worth following? Yes, well, forward on social me, that's very easy. Right, yes, Click and follow, but following a someone that inspires you, that you really want to learn from and and helps you get better at takes more time. I believe leaders leap, and this is not about the title, it's about what you do. So it doesn't need to be a a famous person that grown a book or a cafamous athlete. It can be someone next to you that you truly admire. So don't be afraid of, you know, calling someone a leader and asking for help if that's what you want. Now, being a leader is a working protest. It's not that, oh, I did something, now I'm a leader, or someone gave me a promotion that has the world manager in it and now I'm a leader. You can't just rest on your lords. I think you have to lead by example, work out every day and really show people why you are in that position, why you are taking risk every day, why you are not taking fish from granted and why you're still hungry to continue growing. Because, as I said before, everyone needs an enter even leaders or athletes or of other people. They also want to have they also want to grow, and I think being, I mean key that's in make you work, that makes you more vulnerable, that makes you eager to learn and that makes you better and aspect. So I think the respect that you get as a person is earned. That's a matter. If someone gives you a promotion, yes, they say, okay, this is the manager, but if you really want to respect someone as a leader, that person has to prove to you that is worth their trust, and that can only be earned by doing, not by saying, not by showing. The so and I by believe it in learning by doing, in leaving by example, in taking risk and really crooving every day why you are the hardest working person in the room, why you have that role, why you won't continue in I either. Ultimately, I think the best way to be a leader is to build a trust foundation with other people and be vulnerable. I think this was a still a misconception in many parts. I definitely made this mistake in the past. Right I'm a leader and need to be cool and it to be strong. I can't show my goodnesses and I haven't figured it out everything and I have my flaws and I also want to work on them. So I think by by opening up and encouraging others to do the same, you can definitely build more meaningful relationships and have people trust each other even more. Appreciate the advice. Thank you, so much, carless, for joining us today. We truly appreciate you being on the leader cast podcast. Thank you. It's been a pleasure.

We covered so much information such a short time. Leader cast community. I appreciate the hunger and Carlos's voice as they spoke about being an entrepreneur and how I reminded us that it doesn't cost anything to have an idea. He also reminded us to focus on quality, not quantity, and to keep on encouraging our teams in this remote world we're currently living in. I found our conversation so refreshing, as it speaks up winning when others win and indicating that you need to show up to grow yourself up and others around you. If you want to connect with Carlos, you can find him on Linkedin or visit product schoolcom to learn more about what he and his team are doing to help others. You can also find more content from leadercast through our blog, newsletters, webinars, videos and more at leader castcom. If you like what you heard today, please share, rate and review this podcast. Check out our previous episodes and subscribe so you never miss the latest from leader cast. Again, thank you for tuning in. We wish could health and safety to you and your family during the season of our world. Now go be a leader worth following. According to research from Edelman and Linkedin, almost sixty percent of decision makers said that thought leadership led them to awarding business to an organization. Sweet fish media helps marketing teams turn their executives into industry thought leaders. Learn more by visiting sweet fish Mediacom leader cast. Thanks for tuning in to the leader cast podcast. To ensure that you never miss an episode, subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player.

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